New Ordinariate Exploratory Group in Guildford. UK

Dr Timothy Graham of Guildford has informed us that a group of local ex-Anglicans have realised that there just might be a quorum for an Ordinariate group in the Guildford area. He writes: “Presently some of us travel quite a distance to Ordinariate groups, some of us worship at local Catholic parishes”.

It has therefore been decided to offer an Ordinariate Use Mass in Guildford in the hope of finding sufficient people interested to form a group and organise worship on a regular basis. This Mass will take place on Saturday 28th November at 3.00 p.m. at the Catholic Church of St Edward the Confessor at Sutton Park to the north-east of Guildford City centre. The celebrant will be Father John Maunder of St. Agatha’s in Portsmouth.

guildford ordinariate mass Nov 2015After Mass there will be refreshments and Father John will give a talk on the Ordinariate. As the St. Agatha’s blogger writes, this is “an ideal opportunity for any and all to come and see what the Ordinariate is all about and to experience its beautiful liturgy”.

St Edward the Confessor GuildfordSt. Edward the Confessor Church, where the Mass is being celebrated by kind permission of the parish priest, is a one-hundred-and-forty year old church, built in the Early English Gothic style which is much more reminiscent of mediaeval pre-Reformation churches than most Gothic Revival Roman Catholic churches. Not only is it in a beautiful rural location but it has its own churchyard with lych gate. (The parish priest 100 years ago was Fr. Arthur Hinsley, later Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster.)

The Guildford Ordinariate Exploratory Group’s blog/website can be accessed online at http://guildfordordinariate.wordpress.com (the www on the poster is unfortunately incorrect). You must then scroll down from the beautiful home page picture in order to read the text.

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13 Responses to New Ordinariate Exploratory Group in Guildford. UK

  1. EPMS says:

    I note that the Ordinariate Use is presented as the major feature. This is very much the thrust of St Agatha’s evangelistic efforts, I have noted. It will be very interesting to see if this bears fruit.

    • Rev22:17 says:

      EPMS,

      You wrote: I note that the Ordinariate Use is presented as the major feature. This is very much the thrust of St Agatha’s evangelistic efforts, I have noted. It will be very interesting to see if this bears fruit.

      That’s not particularly surprising. The congregation of St. Agatha’s was the only significant congregation to come into the ordinariate from The Traditional Anglican Church (TTAC), the English province of the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC), and thus has a vastly different heritage than the rest of the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham. In the TTAC, they used the English Missal rather than the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. It’s therefore natural for them to use the Divine Worship liturgy, which is substantially their heritage.

      Norm.

  2. EPMS says:

    Yes, I was aware of St Agatha’s history. However, as we recall, TTAC was a tiny group, even by “continuing” church standards. Its lack of appeal could have been the result of many factors, of course. But the issue of liturgy is clearly going to be more complicated in the OOLW than elsewhere.

    • Dr. Graham refers to only one other Ordinariate group in England which used the English Missal as Anglicans, and that was Croydon.

      • Federico Z says:

        As on several other issues, I do agree with the issues raised by EPMS. In this case in particular, from my point of view at least, I believe that liturgy might be a ‘more complicated’ issue in the OOLW especially for what concerns missionary activity and the attraction of new members rather than the consolidation of the present communities.

    • Rev22:17 says:

      EPMS,

      However, as we recall, TTAC was a tiny group, even by “continuing” church standards.

      True. St. Agatha’s apparently was the only parish of The Traditional Anglican Church (TTAC) that was of significant size. This congregation also gained the members of the Portsmouth and Isle of Wight Ordinariate Group who live on the mainland upon its reception into the full communion of the Catholic Church.

      Its lack of appeal could have been the result of many factors, of course.

      Lack of appeal does not seem to have constrained the St. Agatha’s.

      But the issue of liturgy is clearly going to be more complicated in the OOLW than elsewhere.

      I’m not sure that it’s more complicated. The issues are certainly different and may lead to different, but not necessarily more complicated, answers. Rather, it’s attempts to force Divine Worship on congregations that are accustomed to using the ordinary form of the Roman Rite that will cause real difficulties.

      That said, the congregations of the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham that habitually use the ordinary form of the Roman Rite can still incorporate Anglican preaching, music, stylistic elements, reverence, etc., to differentiate themselves from diocesan parishes. There is no intrinsic link between one liturgical use or another and the mission of evangelism. Rather, evangelism, although often forgotten in many parishes, is the universal mission of the whole church.

      Norm.

      • EPMS says:

        Regarding the “significant size” of St Agatha’s in its TTAC days, twenty members, clerical and lay, were received from that church into the OOLW in 2012. I do not know what percentage of the TTAC parish that represented, but there is no TTAC presence in Portsmouth now so I would assume it was all or most.

  3. EPMS says:

    What are the “issue[s] of liturgy” you see in the other Ordinariates, Norm? The newsletters, websites, and Facebook pages I see from OCSP sources, at least, seem uniformly celebratory about the debut of Divine Worship.

    • Rev22:17 says:

      EPMS,

      You asked: What are the “issue[s] of liturgy” you see in the other Ordinariates, Norm?

      For starters, consider what happens

      * when ordinariate members are travelling in locations where there are no ordinariate congregations, or simply can’t get to the masses of their ordinariate congregations due to schedule conflicts, and thus must assist in the mass of a diocesan parish,

      * when ordinariate congregations participate in events sponsored by the local diocese,

      * when ordinariate members attend in baptisms, weddings, funerals, and other events of their diocesan Catholic friends,

      * when ordinariate members participate in retreats at houses of non-ordinariate religious orders,

      * when ordinariate members are in residential schools staffed by diocesan chaplains or operated by non-ordinariate religious communities, including in seminaries studying alongside diocesan and religious seminarians,

      and in the many other instances when ordinariate members may have to assist in liturgical celebrations according to the ordinary form of the Roman Rite.

      Pastors have a clear duty to prepare their parishioners of all ages for such foreseeable situations by ensuring that they have at least enough knowledge of the ordinary form of the Roman Rite to participate fully in these celebrations. One can achieve some of this through catechesis, but it’s also important to ensure that parishioners have enough actual experience of the ordinary form to enable “full and active participation” (Vatican Council II, Constitution Sacrosanctum concillium on Divine Worship, No. 14) therein. This generally means that each ordinariate congregation should use the ordinary form of the Roman Rite with sufficient frequency to develop and sustain familiarity with it. Every ordinariate congregation has the challenge of balancing its use of the Divine Worship liturgy with this pastoral issue.

      My guess is that it would be best for each ordinariate congregation to use the Roman Missal perhaps one Sunday of each month until it becomes familiar and comfortable, and perhaps once each calendar quarterly thereafter to preserve this.

      Norm.

  4. EPMS says:

    Well, apart from Our Lady of Good Counsel, Jacksonville, NC which advertises a “typical Roman Catholic mass” at 12 o’clock every Sunday, I believe that none of the English-language OCSP congregations ever use the OF. On the other hand, members are often encouraged to attend diocesan or other events where the OF will be used. It’s hard to imagine that anyone familiar with Divine Worship or even with a typical Episcopalian/ACC service would have any difficulty in following the OF.

    • Rev22:17 says:

      EPMS,

      You wrote: It’s hard to imagine that anyone familiar with Divine Worship or even with a typical Episcopalian/ACC service would have any difficulty in following the OF.

      True, but not “hav[ing] any difficulty following” is not the same as “full and active participation” envisioned by the Second Vatican Council.

      That said, I do think that this issue will sort itself out in due course.

      Norm.

  5. EPMS says:

    Two points: if “full and active participation” in an OF mass means saying/singing the people’s responses, standing, sitting, or kneeling as directed, listening attentively to the readimgs and sermon, and singing the hymns, I don’t think former Anglicans will need any lessons. Secondly, I do not believe, as you may have noticed, that issues “sort themselves out” very often. Sometimes the people who care go away, solving a problem for the rest, but in the case of the liturgical identity of the Ordinariates this does not seem a desirable outcome.

  6. Parishioner at St Agatha's says:

    The Ordinariate Use certainly seems to appeal to the new young members of our congregation who are often “diocesan Catholics”. The ability of congregants to adapt to various forms of liturgy should not be underestimated nor should their appreciation of the richness of the Ordinariate Use … be disregarded. (Editor’s decision to omit certain words)

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